You are still all abuzz over Dark Knight. You are still very mad at me for calling it, "meh."
Some defensive notes:
This isn't my first rodeo.
This is not the first time I have watched the Joker revitalize a Batman franchise. Joker on the cover of Batman books sales better than not having him on the cover. Caesar Romero stole the scenes of the 60s television show. Nicholson's The Joker was the best part of the 90s Tim Burton movie. The Joker drives the franchise...and the plot. He always has.
It's the Joker who kills Robin. The Joker burns Arkham. He tortures and paralyzes Commissioner Gordon's daughter in the "Killing Joke," a comic that in defied all the "rules" of graphic novels and reinvented the Joker character as a cruel, murderous lunatic instead of "the clown prince of crime" who gagged his way through the 60s and 70s.
Part of the Joker's appeal is simple. People fear clowns. Plus, no other Batman villain is worth his weight in intimidation. The Penguin? Waddling into your nightmares without flight? Horrifying. The Riddler? Oh no! Not riddles! Riddles makes me think of sitting next to my grandfather after one too many Amaretto sours. What's next, Crossword Man? King Tut? For real? The Scarecrow? Scary...for crows. Why not develop Stiff Breeze Guy. Mr. Freeze? Sounds like Shop-Rite's brand of popsicles.
None of these evil-doers pack the punch of the Joker. The Joker is the end all of Batman, and much like Heath Ledger's character points out, Batman can't kill Joker...without killing himself.
Some defensive notes:
This isn't my first rodeo.
This is not the first time I have watched the Joker revitalize a Batman franchise. Joker on the cover of Batman books sales better than not having him on the cover. Caesar Romero stole the scenes of the 60s television show. Nicholson's The Joker was the best part of the 90s Tim Burton movie. The Joker drives the franchise...and the plot. He always has.
It's the Joker who kills Robin. The Joker burns Arkham. He tortures and paralyzes Commissioner Gordon's daughter in the "Killing Joke," a comic that in defied all the "rules" of graphic novels and reinvented the Joker character as a cruel, murderous lunatic instead of "the clown prince of crime" who gagged his way through the 60s and 70s. Part of the Joker's appeal is simple. People fear clowns. Plus, no other Batman villain is worth his weight in intimidation. The Penguin? Waddling into your nightmares without flight? Horrifying. The Riddler? Oh no! Not riddles! Riddles makes me think of sitting next to my grandfather after one too many Amaretto sours. What's next, Crossword Man? King Tut? For real? The Scarecrow? Scary...for crows. Why not develop Stiff Breeze Guy. Mr. Freeze? Sounds like Shop-Rite's brand of popsicles.
None of these evil-doers pack the punch of the Joker. The Joker is the end all of Batman, and much like Heath Ledger's character points out, Batman can't kill Joker...without killing himself.
So sitting down to watch Dark Knight exclusively for the Joker is not a new experience. But questions persist. Ledger's performance is powerful. His Joker's contribution to the canon is intensity. This Joker makes us more tense, even upset than any other incarnation of the character. Even Nicholson, who made a career out of playing psycho, draws a more a more relieving Joker. His one-liners and purpleness allows the audience to share in an internal smile. Ledger, with his lumbering gait, crack-addict mouth and streaked make-up, never indulges us with even a small wink.
This is all Ledger. He was a truly gifted actor. His legacy should rest more firmly in Ang Lee's gorgeous Brokeback Mountain. His portrayal of a man tortured by his personal truth is nothing short of breath-taking. The Joker is a solid addition to his legacy, but it should not define it.
This is all Ledger. He was a truly gifted actor. His legacy should rest more firmly in Ang Lee's gorgeous Brokeback Mountain. His portrayal of a man tortured by his personal truth is nothing short of breath-taking. The Joker is a solid addition to his legacy, but it should not define it.
And so goes Dark Knight. It's an excellent super hero movie, but is it more than that? Ledger's performance is great, but is it an Oscar-worthy? Is Dark Knight itself an Oscar-caliber film (Ebert and the NYT both place it pretty high on the "maybe" list)?
Maybe the value of these questions are eclipsed by a larger one: Would Dark Knight be the Oscar contender it is if not for Ledger's tragic death? In other words, if Ledger were alive, well and starring in a period piece opposite Kate Winslet this Spring, would we be having an Oscar conversation about this movie?
Consideration of these and other questions will drive our conversation of Dark Knight.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteIf Ledger didn't die, of coarse this movie would have made the same amount of money. Once the trailer came out, everyone questioned is that really Ledger?
ReplyDeleteThis movie was amazingly done, the oscar buzz on this movie is argueable, but ledgers acting is not argueable. It is oscar material. The biggest factor of seeing this movie was Heath Ledger's performance. The trailer gave a bit of Joker but not the whole thing. Once you see Joker's plan unfold in the first 10 minutes of the film, you say he just stole the movie from Christian Bale. Ledger's acting is so perfect, he encompasses a whole new human being at the same time making it believable. Isn't that what acting is about...being someone else emotionally and physically while keeping the audience in belief that you are this other person, in ledger's case, you are the Joker. It's is understanding if ledger doesn't win an oscar but not understanding if he isn't nominated. To me his death doesn't create this feeling for me. Ledger was oscar material and in the Dark Night flawless. he sold scars, he sold his lies about his scars, he sold the hatred, he sold the anarchy, he totally sells the joker.
Five minutes after watching 'The Dark Knight', there was no doubt in my mind that the film was to be nominated for an Academy Award... I was blown away. But now, after a few months of being able to soak in all the glory and acclaim it has made for itself, I'm just not so sure.
ReplyDeleteIt just makes me wonder: I am SURE that the directors of 'Spider-Man' and 'Iron Man' and Ang Lee's 'Hulk' weren't creating their films with an Oscar nomination (for Best Picture) in mind, but was Nolan? It seems so rare for a big-time superhero blockbuster to be in the running for Best Picture (or Best Supporting Actor) against films like 'No Country for Old Men', 'The Departed', 'Crash', 'Million Dollar Baby' ('Hundred-Dollar Baby')...'Milk', 'Frost/Nixon', 'Revolutionary Road', 'Doubt'...but that is where it stands (or did).
Ledger's Death: (RIP)
ReplyDeleteI've just decided to come to the logical conclusion, for the sake of this argument/discussion, that yes, Ledger's death was a key factor in 'The Dark Knights' money-making ability. Its audience wanted to experience Ledger's last moments on-screen, not only because he was such a tremendous actor but because he was such a real one. He didn't make a false name for himself and he only acted in movies that he thought were appropriate for his career--he even turned down the role for Peter Parker (which is more than understandable) and Anakin Skywalker. Even in his higher (financial) successes like 'A Knights Tale' and 'Brokeback', he shows us his true self through his characters, all while giving us a sense of the delectable, quirky-charm that made us all fall in love with him from the begining.
well said, mama, as usual
ReplyDeleteWell there is a lot to say here and I'll try to keep it all organized.
ReplyDeleteFirst the question of whether it would have generated as much cash flow as it would have if Ledger hadn't died. I'm torn on this topic to no end. Anyone who saw Nolan's Batman Begins felt that Batman was back and couldn't wait for the next which would clearly have The Joker due to the films ending in which his calling card is revealed. As soon as the second film was decided on The Dark Knight employed some of the best viral advertising of its time. On top of this its star power alone drew you in. Now let’s throw Heath Ledger to the side for a second. I personally saw The Dark Knight four times in theaters and knew many other people who did the same. I spent each week on the-numbers.com watching how much it was grossing hoping for it to crush every record in its way. Now would it have done worse without Heath Ledger? Yes but not by a considerable amount. That's like saying that Titanic would have grossed 50% more if Leonardo DiCaprio had died. Would more people have gone seen it? Possibly but the people would see to see it and rewatch because of how great of a movie it was.
Now comes the second question is this film an Oscar worthy film? Deep down in my heart, I say yes. I'm a fan boy tried and true of both Batman and Nolan. Nolan is one of those great directors and he deserves a bit of recognition for his mastery. Costal mentions that Ebert has this film on his maybe list but if you read his reviews (he had written two) he shows us that you can't call The Dark Knight a comic book movie with a straight face. This movie is a crime movie. It's a neo-noir. It's a film that trudges forward, keeping the edge of your seat and wanting more. I jumped all 4 times I went, at the part where the dead body hits the window. I knew it was coming, even the first time because you just felt it, but you were too immersed to stop yourself. So can a "comic book movie" win? Yes. Look back at past Oscars right now. Movies of all shapes and sizes have taken an Oscar. Countless musicals, comedies and fantasies have been bestowed the honor. Am I saying that the world won't look back and say to themselves "How did that win?! Gran Torino (insert other possible contenders here) is on the third revised AFI Top 100 list! How did it lose?" That's how the Oscars work. Around the World in 80 Days won 5 Oscars and the Seven Samurai wasn't even nominated for best picture that year. Which has stood the test of time? Oscars are about the here and now and The Dark Knight is very much, here and now.
Now for the last question, was Heath Ledger REALLY that good? If you had told anyone during the Oscars of 2006, that Heath Ledge was going to play The Joker, they probably would have laughed in your face. The pretty boy actor comes out of nowhere and playing a psychotic mad man. His performance is right up there with other method actors; Brando in A Streetcar Named Desire, DeNiro in Taxi Driver; Hoffman in Midnight Cowboy. None of them actually won an award for their roles in those movies but they were nominated. Each of those men has won two Oscars. Ledger has passed away. He showed true greatness. Will he know he won an Oscar? Not to my knowledge but it’s a matter of honoring great acting. It’s the principles the Oscars live by. Can anyone say they watch a better performance by a supporting actor this year? I know I can’t.
So now that my epic has concluded I just have to say one more thing. The Oscars have had some of the poorest ratings the past few years. It needs The Dark Knight to have nominations and wins to boost its ratings. How can people, including critics, keep a straight face saying it won’t get nominations?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletedude do not even start dissing the penguin or the riddler. i will throw down so much nerd rage you have no idea.
ReplyDeleteI think it's undeniable that TDK grew to its level in popularity because of the death of Ledger. If Ledger had been working on any other movie at the time, that movie would have gotten plenty of attention as well after news of his death. That's not to say that his performance isn't captivating as well, we all know just how stupendously he performed. I just believe it's the drama that surrounds him along with his performance that really sold the film. Either of the two separately wouldn't have had near the impact they did together.
To be honest, though, I enjoyed Iron Man more than I enjoyed The Dark Knight. I loved TDK, yeah. I just loved Iron Man more. It's kind of what Paul was just saying; The Dark Knight was a suspenseful, grim/dark, thrillride of a movie. It was less of a superhero flick than it was a drama, but even just calling it that isn't totally accurate. Iron Man was just plain fun, and if you were comparing them both as superhero movies then I would always side with Iron Man. God help me, I'll watch Robert Downey act suave and pompous on camera any day of the week.
by the way, nice job finally seeing the currently highest rated film of all time, film institute professor
Thank you, Paul. Good points.
ReplyDeleteJames, lol, yea...I truly have my finger on the pulse. I am like that one guy in 1984 who didn't buy "Thriller"
ReplyDeleteNot being a comic book fan, and, particularly, not being a fan of Batman, I have to say, I originally had no idea what the hype was all about.
ReplyDeleteOf course, upon hearing the news of Heath Ledger's death, I was intrigued. Although, as time went on, I didn't care about "the Dark Knight", its' gargantuan buzz, the hype surrounding Ledger's performance or all of the above.
But, in July, when the movie was released, and I don't know why, I wanted to see this movie.
There was something that was pulling me in, and it wasn't Ledger.
After viewing the film, I can honestly say I was flabbergasted.
Never before had a superhero movie felt to gritty, so intense, at least not to me.
It lived up to its hype 100% .
Now, does it deserve Oscars?
I'm going to agree with the majority here. Yes, it does.
Do I believe it will win any? No, but for me that's besides the point.
The film succeeded on every necessary level.
Now, does Ledger deserve all the buzz he received?
Once again, absolutely.
You know an actor is great, when he can steal a movie away from Christian Bale, Maggie Gyllenhaal, Michael Caine, Gary Oldman, Aaron Eckhart AND Mogan Freeman.
This wasn't acting. This was BEING.
Ledger inhabited this character completely and totally, and deserves every bit of praise possible.
Of course, as this was his last performance, there was more hype than usual, yes, but it was all deserved.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhen Heath Ledger died, it was a great loss to Hollywood. His memorable performance in "The Dark Knight" would only have resulted in an escalating amount of movies being thrown his way. His death was obviously the reason for the films success, which worked in his favor unlike Bernie Mac's last film, but that can't be the only factor. The much anticipated sequel to "Batman Returns" kept comic book lovers on the edge of their seats, while movie guru's were questioning whether Ledger could hold the position of such a dark and villainous character. When the film finally came out, his performance surprised every audience member and critic. Every good review written about the film was well deserved, but to even consider this as being non-Oscar winning material would be a mockery to the film industry. Ledger's performance was beyond perfection, there is no doubt about that, but what does it truly take to even become Oscar worthy? Memorable performances, film effects, music, costumes, make-up, set design. All of these things are thought about when nominating movies for the award. Why can't Ledger or "The Dark Knight" win awards? A film that has left audience members speechless and terrified, yet excited, seems just as deserving as past-winning films.
ReplyDeleteI have not seen The Dark Knight---I wanted to and still do but have yet to go out of my way to try to watch it. I cannot say that this movie is Oscar-worthy with or without Ledger’s performance because I haven’t seen it BUT I have two points that sway me into believing both sides. On the left side, I stand thinking this film would not have thrived if not for Ledger’s death. On the right, I think, there was more to the movie than just The Joker that landed this movie into a big pile of success. I am not a big fan of super hero movies. Spider man can use his little web-shooting hands to climb up any building he wants but that won’t make me pay to sit and watch him. The hulk can be as incredible as any green giant can, ripping through shirts and looking like he’s on steroids, but once again, does nothing for me. However, a death in Hollywood raises my attention. If the actor/actress is old and not from my time, I sigh and say, “aw, that’s sad.” When it’s Anna Nicole Smith, I’m all over my television, eyes glued to “Entertainment Tonight.” Hearing that Ledger was dead was literally unbelievable. In fact, I was in such disbelief that it took Jon Henry’s Tee-shirt (R.I.P Heath Ledger) to get that idea that Ledger is actually gone through my head. When all the buzz went around that his performance-his last performance- was brilliant, I could care less why it was deemed amazing-I just had to see it because it was his last. (Of course, I didn’t see it but I really, really tried to-and once again-only because he was dead.)
ReplyDeleteNow, Erin briefly brought up my next big point. Bernie Mac, a loved comedian/actor recently died and it was on the news for oh, gee, maybe a whole 2 days. Being in a movie that was about to release with dead Bernie meant nothing to movie-goers. And to top it off, the other co-actor died too! How does a movie with 2 deaths not even compare to a movie with Ledger’s death? Maybe Ledger’s performance was a big component of The Dark Knight’s Success. Maybe the overall production brought in the big bucks. Maybe the movie is deserving of an Oscar…
Even in my younger days, comic books and superhero's never really caught my interest. I was more of a Disney princess kind of kid. I have not seen 'The Dark Knight' and probably won't unless my dad rents it on Netflix and there is nothing else to do. This compelling feeling of not wanting to watch superhero movies has nothing to do with the actors or anything else involved with the movie. I just can not stand that genre for the life of me. Yea sure ill watch it but instead of getting involved in the heart pounding intense action of the couragious character, i would simply just sit there wondering when it will be over. I feel that watching 'The Dark Knight' might change this. I have heard nothing but great things about this film and Heath Ledger's performance, that i am actually kind of intrigued. Heath had a fantastic performance in 'Brokeback Mountain.' His acting skills were mind blowingly good, making you feel as if you were the character. Whether a good thing or bad thing in the case of 'Brokeback Mountain', his talent shined through. I do fully believe that 'The Dark Knight' was such a great hit due to his death, and the fact that he had an amazing performance made it even better. A question that often ponders around in my mind is whether or not Heath Ledger's would have been as greatly recognized if he haden't died? If his performance is as good as everyone says it is, then it is no doubt going to turn into an Oscar nomination. As for the movie itself, that is a whole other story. I dont think that it will, but i am going off own personal assumptions for like i said before i have never seen the movie. This weekend though i will rent this film, watch it, and will re-post another reaction to this film and Heath Ledger's performace.
ReplyDeleteI really don't agree that The Dark Night is just a super-hero movie. My first thought during and after watching it was that it's extremely relevant. Why else would critics even consider it as worthy of garnering Oscar buzz? A movie that inspires deep thought and reflects our own reflections back at us like a mirror is certainly the right candidate. There are definitely other movies that have jumped ahead in the game, such as The Curious Case of Benjamin Button and Slumdog Millionaire. I wouldn't count The Dark Knight out at all, though. It provides enough fantasy needed to succumb all types of audiences and has won over fans new to the Christopher Nolan franchise. Above all, it has enough reality to win over even the toughest of critics. And then, of course, there's Heath Ledger's performance. It was truly a work of art. His facial ticks, the gritty voice that swings up to a high falsetto...it was brilliant and utterly disconcerting. I do believe the movie would have made the same amount of money; this is another reason that it could win. Money-makers are rarely considered for Best Picture, but this one is special. I believe in The Dark Knight.
ReplyDeleteI don't doubt the box office numbers the film produced. Like Zander said, the trailer sold the film. People felt the uneasy natural of Ledger's Joker only by watching a 30 sectence clip. I remember before the film opened I went to see Hancock and I saw a trailer for the Dark Knight. The scene in which Christian Bale glides off the skyscraper electrofied the film, and emphasized the visual effects. I remember my heart sinking and thinking to myself this is a must see movie.
ReplyDeleteWhat made this movie so great was the hype built up in the trailers and the marketing of the film, then once people saw it, it didn't disappoint.
I do remeber reading an article shortly after the films release about Ledger's porfomance being Ocars worthing. The article read that superhero films though they may be well done and well acted aren't typically awarded Ocars.
Ledger's performance in my opinion, is arguably the greatest in any Batman film by either Batman or villian. I think if he were alive he would be considered because he was two totaly different and became the Joker, but not as much as it is talked about. I'm sure he would be nominated, and maybe even win some less prestigest awards.
fantasy films in the Academy Awards: Let's not forget LOTR: Return of the King stealing 11 Oscars in 2004, including best picture!
ReplyDeleteI have to say Heath Ledger stole the show. The film could have been named after the 1928 silent film The Man Who Laughs which is a film i enjoyed and the inspiration for the joker. http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7B0C643987C24D29
ReplyDeleteAs amazing as Heath Ledger was in the film and the free publicity that came from his film, he was only a piece of the puzzle that is The Dark Knight.
Let us not forget of all the other top of the line actors: Aaron Eckhart, Maggie Gyllenhall, Gary Oldman, Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman, Gary Oldman, and not to be forgotten Christian Bale. Although the Batman voice was highly criticized, I have to say Bale performed at an excellent level. Its easy to play Batman, but playing Bruce Wayne is complex. Bruce Wayne has the same complexity of none other than Charles Foster Kane. In the public eye he is powerful and a playboy, but behind the scenes he is tormented by many inner demons. Christian Bale delivers this better than any of his predecessors. Keaton just wasn't a playboy, Kilmer was too tormented and emo, Clooney too much of a playboy and takes his job as Batman with too much ease, and Adam West played more of an Adam West instead of a Bruce Wayne. I digress though.
Batman not only had the cast, they had the director. Nolan had two titles that come to mind that were are must sees, Momento and the forgotten and one upped older brother Batman Begins. Nolan and his brother wrote a script that portrays the battle between the joker and batman perfectly and he delivers it through the film.
Heath Ledger did an do a great job and he stole the show, but I remember one summer day seeing the trailer of the film before his death and i felt the hype. The Dark Knight is like a hot fudge sunday and Ledger's role was the cherry for the whole ilm.
it deserves an Oscar
ReplyDeleteHey,
ReplyDeleteThis is a question for the webmaster/admin here at costalfilm.blogspot.com.
Can I use part of the information from this blog post above if I give a link back to this site?
Thanks,
Harry